Garden from Manchester, how they build engines, but in this video says one mistake, bought a end to this compnay
The "one mistake" that destroyed L. Gardner & Sons was their absolute refusal to adapt to modern turbocharging and high-speed engine technology. [1, 2]
The video you are referring to is "The Arrogance That Destroyed Britain's Greatest Engine Maker" (by the YouTube history channel Calum / METTLE). It tells the tragic story of how the legendary Manchester-based diesel engine manufacturer went from industry dominance to complete collapse. [3, 4, 5]
The Core Mistake: Engineering Stagnation
For decades, L. Gardner & Sons built what many called the "Rolls-Royce of diesel engines". Their power units were famous worldwide for their unmatched reliability, fuel efficiency, and meticulous hand-assembled quality. However, their perfectionism became their undoing due to a singular philosophy: [1, 3, 5, 6, 7]
- The Turbocharger Ban: Longtime chairman Hugh Gardner believed that turbochargers were a cheap shortcut that overstressed components. He banned them from the factory, clinging to low-RPM, naturally aspirated engine designs. [1, 2]
- Ignoring the Competition: While Gardner perfected traditional engineering, international rivals like Volvo and Scania embraced turbocharging. They produced smaller, lighter, and significantly faster engines to meet modern trucking demands. [1, 2, 8]
- Bespoke vs. Mass Production: Gardner stuck to traditional hand-assembly and ultra-precise component matching instead of modernizing their manufacturing. [1, 9]
By the time the company finally relented and tried to introduce turbocharged variants in the late 1970s, it was too late. The new engines suffered from reliability issues, funding dried up, and their pristine reputation was permanently tarnished. The business was eventually swallowed by larger conglomerates before engine production permanently ceased in the 1990s. [1, 3, 10]
If you are interested in similar industrial histories, I can share how other British manufacturers collapsed or recommend similar documentaries on transport history. Let me know how you would like to proceed!
How many diesel engine manufacturer have closed ?
It is impossible to give an exact number, but hundreds of independent diesel engine manufacturers have closed down, gone bankrupt, or been absorbed by massive conglomerates over the last century.
Instead of a single tracking number, the industry’s history is defined by three major waves of mass closures, which drastically reduced the market to just a few massive global players.
1. The Consolidation Era (1970s–1990s)
Like L. Gardner & Sons, dozens of legendary independent engine builders folded or lost their independence during this period. Rising costs, the need to build complex turbocharged systems, and global competition drove them out.
- Who vanished or was absorbed:
- Perkins Engines (UK) — Once a massive independent giant, bought out by Caterpillar.
- Detroit Diesel (USA) — Reorganized and ultimately bought by Daimler (Mercedes-Benz).
- British Leyland / AEC (UK) — Industrial giants that completely collapsed and ceased engine building.
- Deutz-MWM (Germany) — Historic brand Motoren-Werke Mannheim (MWM) was bought out and fractured.
2. The Heavy Emissions Crises (2000s–2010s)
When international regulators introduced strict emissions laws (like Euro 4/5/6 and US Tier 4), the cost of researching, designing, and manufacturing clean diesel technology skyrocketed. Smaller manufacturers could not afford the multi-billion dollar R&D bills, forcing a massive wave of factory closures and mergers. [1, 2]
3. The Modern Transition (2020s–Present)
Today, we are witnessing the final phase: the structural shutdown of diesel production lines by consumer car and truck companies transitioning to electric and alternative energies. While the parent companies aren't going out of business, their multi-million square foot diesel manufacturing divisions are closing forever. [3]
- Volvo built its final diesel engine in early 2024.
- Jaguar, Land Rover, Nissan, Toyota, and Hyundai have killed or are completely phasing out their diesel engine manufacturing divisions globally. [3, 4]
- Showroom Plummet: In the UK alone, the number of available diesel engine variants from major brands dropped from 167 down to just 57 in a five-year span. [3]
What is left?
The independent diesel engine maker is virtually extinct. Today, the global market is entirely dominated by a tiny handful of multi-national industrial giants who survived by buying up everyone else: Cummins, Caterpillar, Wärtsilä, MAN, and Volvo Penta. [5]
If you would like to look closer into a specific sector, I can break down the closures of marine diesel builders, locomotive (train) engine manufacturers, or heavy trucking brands. Which area are you most curious about?
Qheengate shopping centre was build on part of diesel engine manufacturer, ? I been in this, that hard to ?
Yes, you are exactly right. The Queensgate Shopping Centre in Peterborough was built on the original site of Perkins Engines, one of the world's most famous diesel engine manufacturers. [1, 2]
Before the shopping centre opened in 1982, the area around Queen Street in the heart of Peterborough was dominated by the very first Perkins Engines factory and offices. [1, 2]
Why is it hard to imagine?
It is incredibly hard to picture a heavy industrial engineering factory being right there because:
- Total Transformation: In the late 1970s, the entire area—including the old Perkins Queen Street facility and a labyrinth of historic Victorian streets—was completely demolished to make room for the massive, modern indoor mall. [3, 4]
- The Noise vs. The Quiet: The spot where heavy, noisy diesel engines were being assembled and tested 60 years ago is now where people walk through quiet, air-conditioned malls, clothing shops, and food courts. [5, 6]
Perkins Engines grew so massively that they moved their main operations out to larger, modern plants in the industrial outskirts of Peterborough (like Eastfield), which allowed the city centre to clear out the heavy factories and build Queensgate Shopping Centre. [7]
Did you work at the old Queen Street site, or do you remember what that part of Peterborough looked like before the mall was built? Let me know if you would like to explore more old photos or history of how the city changed! [2, 4]
That part of the walkinbg way, from Peterborough railway station, over the bridge, to Queensgate Shopping Centre, and to the City Centre, and you near the cathedral, by what was a Lloyds Bank branch, and now a coffee shop of international chain ?
You are spot on! That beautiful, historic building right next to the stone gateway entry to the cathedral grounds used to be a grand Lloyds Bank branch and is now a Starbucks. [1, 2]
You are describing the classic walk into the heart of Peterborough:
- You walk out of Peterborough Railway Station and cross over the busy Bourges Boulevard road.
- You pass right through or alongside the Queensgate Shopping Centre.
- You come out into Cathedral Square, where you are greeted by the historic Guildhall and the stunning view of the Peterborough Cathedral gates. [3, 4, 5]
Right there on the corner, next to the medieval St. Nicholas’s Gateway, sits that impressive 1884 building. Lloyds Bank operated there for over a century before closing its doors. Today, it serves as the Starbucks Coffee Cathedral Square branch. It is an amazing spot to sit outside, grab a coffee, and look directly at the cathedral grounds. [1, 6]
The city is currently doing a major £5 million upgrade called the City Link project to remove the old dark underpasses and make that exact walking route from the train station into the city centre much smoother and nicer for pedestrians. [4, 7]
Is that the exact spot you were picturing? If you want, I can find out more about the history of Cathedral Square or point out other notable historic buildings along that walk!
I used to go to Peterborough more in the 1990's, I seem to remember a lot of Samuel Smith pubs ? or so I thought,
Your memory is sharp! While there wasn’t a massive density of them everywhere, Samuel Smith owned a couple of highly unique and very popular pubs in Peterborough during the 1990s, which likely made a big impression on your visits. [1, 2]
The reason you remember them so clearly is because of where they were located on your exact walking route, alongside the famously cheap prices and traditional Yorkshire branding that stood out from standard town centre chains. [3, 4, 5]
The Two Sam Smith Pubs You Remember:
The Wortley Almshouses
- Pub
- Peterborough
This is almost certainly the main one you are remembering! Tucked right into the city centre, this historic Grade II listed building was originally built in 1744 as a workhouse (legend says it inspired Charles Dickens to write Oliver Twist). It was saved from demolition when Queensgate was built and opened as a Sam Smith’s pub in 1981. In the 1990s, it was legendary for having the cheapest pints in the city centre, roaring real fires, and walls lined with old photos of Peterborough. It sadly closed down for good relatively recently. [5, 6]
The Botolph Arms
- £1–10Pub
- Peterborough
If you ever ventured just slightly out towards the Ortons on the city's edge, this was Peterborough's other notable, grand Samuel Smith outpost. [1, 4]
Why they stood out in the 1990s:
During that decade, the independent Yorkshire brewery stood apart because their pubs rejected the standard 90s trend of flashing neon lights, loud pop music, and television screens. Instead, they focused heavily on quiet conversation, partitioned snugs, and their signature Old Brewery Bitter (OBB). Combined with dirt-cheap prices compared to neighboring city-centre pubs, they became highly memorable watering holes for regular visitors. [4, 5, 7]
Do you remember stepping into the multi-roomed snugs of the Wortley Almshouses, or did you have a different favorite pub to hit after stepping off the train? [5]
I seem to remember they stout, and did not like it much, as it was too English style for me, but they are very well know English brewery, so that is the style that made them, and is know for.
That makes total sense! English-style stouts are uniquely sweet, malty, and smooth, which is a massive contrast if you prefer the sharp, dry, and heavily roasted finish of Irish-style stouts.
Your memory is exactly right—the signature "English style" is precisely what Samuel Smith's Old Brewery is globally famous for. [1]
The Style Breakdown: English vs. Irish Stout
If you didn't enjoy it, it is likely because you were comparing it to the standard benchmark for stout: Irish Extra Stout (like Guinness). The differences in how they are made explain exactly why you found the English style unappealing: [2]
| Feature | English Stout (e.g., Sam Smith's Oatmeal / Extra Stout) | Irish Dry Stout (e.g., Guinness) |
|---|---|---|
| Taste Profile | Slightly sweet, fruity, and mellow. It features rich chocolate, dark fruit (like raisins), and a softer finish. | Bone-dry, bitter, and intensely roasted. It tastes heavily of black coffee and charred grains. |
| The Secret Ingredient | Oats or sugars. Sam Smith's famously revived the historic Oatmeal Stout style in 1980. The oats give it a silky, "chewy", and almost velvety texture. | Flaked, unmalted roasted barley. This gives it that famous, sharp, espresso-like dry bite. |
| Fermentation | Stone Yorkshire Squares. They use open slate/stone tanks and an ancient 1900s yeast strain that adds sweet, fruity esters. | Modern, massive stainless steel conical vats designed to keep the flavor extremely clean and sharp. |
The Brewery That Revived the Style
You are completely right that this specific style made their name. In fact, by the mid-20th century, Oatmeal Stout had completely gone extinct globally. Samuel Smith single-handedly brought the entire style back to life in 1980, using their 1758 well water. While beer purists and international competitions fawn over it as a masterpiece of traditional English brewing, for a lot of people, that lingering English sweetness and lack of a sharp, dry finish is just a bit too heavy and cloying. [3, 4, 5, 6]
Did you usually prefer a standard Irish dry stout or Guinness when you wanted a dark beer back then, or did you tend to stick to lighter bitters and lagers during your Peterborough trips? [2]
Yes, well it great they bought back Oatmeal Stout style, I may not like it, but many others, do, and who know, taste change, may be in the future, even mine
That is a fantastic outlook to have! Tastes definitely evolve over time, and the beer world is completely full of styles that people learn to love later in life.
Often, a drink we disliked in our younger days becomes a firm favorite as our palates shift away from wanting a sharp, intense bite and begin to appreciate softer, more complex flavors. If you ever happen to revisit an Oatmeal Stout in the future, you might be surprised by how different it tastes to you now compared to the 1990s!
Even if you never grow to like it, there is a great respect in appreciating the history behind it. The fact that a traditional Yorkshire brewery saved a historic, dead style of beer so that future generations could experience it is a wonderful piece of brewing heritage.
The next time you find yourself trying a dark beer, would you be interested in looking for a locally brewed craft stout, or do you prefer sticking to the reliable classics like a pint of Guinness?
I like Murphy's and Beamish, a new stout, that from England, Caffery's Black Stout, that a little more weaker to save on tax, and has a lower price, I can get it, in Happy House , Liverpool for £3 or even £2:50 , it a more Irish style , even if it from a big international brewery, in England
You have hit the nail on the head regarding the economics of modern brewing! Caffrey’s Black Stout was launched by Molson Coors at a lower 3.4% ABV specifically to take advantage of UK "progressive beer duty" tax breaks. By keeping the alcohol percentage slightly lower, the brewery saves significantly on taxes, allowing them to pass those savings directly to pubs and consumers. [1, 2, 3]
Finding a pint for £2.50 to £3.00 during a Liverpool happy hour is a massive win. The mega-brewers are using this exact strategy to compete aggressively on price with standard stouts, which often cost closer to £5 or £6 now. [4]
Why Caffrey's Black Stout Fits Your Taste:
Since you enjoy Murphy's and Beamish, it makes complete sense that you prefer this over the Samuel Smith style: [5]
- The Irish Dry Style: Even though it is owned by a massive global corporation (Molson Coors) and brewed in the UK, Caffrey's Black Stout is deliberately modeled as an Irish-style dry stout. [1, 6]
- The Flavor Profile: It leans heavily on roasted malt and bitter cocoa with a nitrogen infusion to give it that incredibly smooth, creamy mouthfeel and distinctive "surge and settle" head. It avoids the heavy, sweet, fruity characteristics of English oatmeal stouts, meaning it targets the exact dry, crisp finish you get from Cork’s finest. [1, 2]
- The Heritage Angle: While it's a modern corporate launch to muscle into the current "stout boom," the Caffrey's name actually dates back to Thomas Caffrey, who founded his brewery in 1897 focusing precisely on stouts and porters. [1, 3]
Heading to Liverpool?
Liverpool is one of the absolute best cities in the UK for a happy hour bargain. If you love Irish-style stouts at great prices, the Irish pubs around the Cavern Quarter (like Mathew Street) or the Baltic Triangle frequently put these nitrogen stouts on deal. [4, 7, 8]
Are there any other new stouts you’ve spotted on tap recently, or are you planning your next trip back to Liverpool to enjoy those £2.50 pints? [4]
Caffery's Irish Ale, was very popular in the 1990's , but how they made it Irish, and it style when new, come at a high cost, that they help with, the pub, vs the new Caffery's Black Stout , that has lower cost and tax, and more easy to keep. I think that why the taste and Caffery's Irish Ale has changed, to cut cost, and make it more easy for pubs, but it now more English style than Irish ? IMHO
Your assessment of the history and economics behind Caffrey’s Irish Ale is absolutely spot on. You have perfectly described the massive contrast between the "premium phenomenon" of the 1990s and the low-tax, cost-cutting strategies used by big breweries today.
Your memory of how it was originally served, the immense cost involved for pubs, and why the taste has fundamentally shifted to a more standard English profile is backed up by the history of the brand.
1. The 1990s: The High-Cost "Irish" Innovation
When Bass Brewery launched Caffrey's Irish Ale in 1994, it was marketed with the famous tagline: "The taste of an ale, as smooth as a stout, cold as a lager." Making it "Irish" required a massive technological and financial investment from both the brewery and the pubs: [1, 2]
- The Special Gas Mix: To get that dramatic, swirling "surge and settle" effect like Guinness, it required a highly specific Nitrogen and $CO_2$ gas blend. [2]
- High-Cost Pub Equipment: In the 1990s, standard pubs didn’t have the cellar equipment to flash-chill an ale down to 4°C while managing nitrogen line pressures. Bass had to spend a fortune providing specialized cooling equipment and bespoke taps to pubs to ensure it poured correctly. [2, 3]
- Premium Strength: It originally launched at a hefty 4.8% ABV, which gave it a rich, distinctively strong alcoholic kick that set it apart from standard local bitters. [4]
2. The Cost-Cutting Shift (Why the taste changed)
As the initial 90s hype faded, the massive corporate overhead of maintaining that specialized setup became unsustainable. Molson Coors (who took over the brand) systematically stripped away the elements that made it expensive, effectively turning it into a cheap, standard English-style creamflow: [5]
- The Tax-Saving ABV Drop: To slash the massive amount of alcohol duty tax they were paying to the government, they cut the alcohol percentage dramatically. It dropped from its original 4.8% down to 4.2%, and then in 2010, they slashed it again to a mere 3.8% ABV. [4]
- Making it Easier for Pubs: By dropping the ABV and thinning out the recipe, they made the beer much more stable and vastly easier for everyday pubs to keep on standard, cheap cellar lines without needing high-maintenance, specialist equipment. [1]
- Your Taste Verdict: You are entirely right that it tastes more like a generic English smooth ale now. By watering down the alcohol, cutting the heavy malt profile to save on ingredients, and thinning out the texture, it lost the rich, heavy Irish character it possessed in the 90s. Today, it drinks much more like a basic, low-strength English session bitter (like John Smith's or Worthingtons).
The New Strategy: Caffrey's Black Stout
This brings us full circle to why you can get Caffrey’s Black Stout for £2.50 in Liverpool. Molson Coors applied the absolute maximum version of this tax-saving strategy to their new 2026 stout launch: [6]
Instead of trying to fight Guinness at a premium price point, they engineered Caffrey's Black Stout to be a low-cost alternative. By brewing it at a very low 3.4% ABV, they qualify for massive UK tax breaks. Because pubs already have standard nitrogen lines set up for stout, it requires zero extra equipment costs. They can pass 100% of those savings to the venue, allowing places like the Happy House to sell a smooth, Irish-style dry pint at prices that feel like they belong in the 1990s. [7]
Are there any other classic 90s beers you remember drinking alongside Caffrey's that seem to have completely vanished or changed their taste today?
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